[REL] Mariken (2000)

[Night457]

Thanks!

Lots of dialogue in this episode.

The extra dialog meant that the translation was especially critical to understanding the characters, especially the Countess. This is probably the quietest episode with the least action, but I was absorbed in what was being revealed.

[pillowbaker]

Thanks for the in-depth understanding, Night. I actually was trying my best to capture the nuance of the countess's dialogue and character, as we get to see more sides of her. I also appreciated how magister Aesculaap had slight glimpses of enjoying Mariken's company and endearing chatter.

So far, a fair bit is revealed in the book, but I haven't needed much from the book since Hoofsdunk 7 (way back in the middle of episode 2), and I really look forward to seeing what I can learn about these revealing areas of the story from it.

Spoiler: I also spent a little extra time on Isabella's argument and defense, as she was quite pragmatic and thoughtful in the face of the surly countess.

I have also so far enjoyed finding the areas of the story that are referenced in Mariken's Lied (Song) at the end of every episode.

Episode 4 is nearly done!

[Night457]

I also appreciated how magister Aesculaap had slight glimpses of enjoying Mariken's company and endearing chatter.

Honestly, I had forgotten his character by now. He was just "some guy" sitting next to the young monk in the Latin scene, right? I should probably go back and rewatch all 4 episodes in one go after your translations are done so that I can see the full story development.

What I remember about the final episode is that it seemed as if it could easily have gone on for more episodes. Maybe just wishful thinking? When you are done and have finished reading the book, I will be interested in your thoughts on that and whether the book continued the story in further adventures.

Spoiler: And oh yes, Isabella, she has quite a pair of church bells ...

[ghost]

Thanks again, pillowbaker! You're putting so much effort and work in this.

If I didn't have the German version, I'd be more than happy with the subtitles!

[pillowbaker]

If I didn't have the German version, I'd be more than happy with the subtitles!

Thank you, ghost. Many thanks for your upscale with the German track.

Honestly, I remember back when I first announced this as an unnamed project and you saying you were excited for it; I remember thinking, "D'oh, I know ghost has already seen this one with a German dubbing!"

Speaking of which, would you be willing to look at something in the Mariken German audio? I've run into a slight bump and I am wondering what exactly Mariken is trying to say near the end of the movie, at time 1:22:43. It starts with "Liebe Maria".

Spoiler: Real spoiler here. It is when Mariken first seems to accept Isabella and Joachim as her intended mother and father, after spying them together in the woods at night. She makes a prayer to Maria/Mary, thanking her for finally letting her see a mother and father for her. But right before, she says something to the effect of "was it like this?", or, "that's how it was, right?" My question is, can you help clarify this question and statement, where it seems she's saying "so war es, ja?" and "So war es, als es mich noch nicht gab." To help keep my question concise, I can tell you that is the crux of my inquiry. I'll write further below about potential interpretations, in case this transcription is correct. First, the original Dutch version says nearly the same thing. But, I am wondering if her intended meaning will be more clear to you. The Russian VO narrator skips this line entirely. My idea is: - Liebe Maria, so war es, ja? -- "Dear Maria, this is how you say it, right?" -- Possibly meaning, Mariken is still new at prayer and is asking if she's saying it right. Just an idea, please correct me if you know otherwise. - So war es, als es mich noch nicht gab. -- "This is how it was before I was here/before I existed." -- Which I have two ideas for: 1. This is how people were praying to you before she (Mariken) ever came along. OR 2. She witnesses Joachim and Isabella were together as a couple before she (Mariken) came along. It might be that both of these interpretations are incorrect. Both direct translations in English just don't quite sound right, but perhaps in Dutch and German, the same is true, and the intention is that Mariken speaks as if she is just now becoming enlightened to more of the world and culture around her. Is the meaning more clear in the German audio? Liebe Maria, so war es, ja? So war es, als es mich noch nicht gab. Danke, dass ich meinen Vater und meine Mutter sehen durfte.

What I remember about the final episode is that it seemed as if it could easily have gone on for more episodes. Maybe just wishful thinking? When you are done and have finished reading the book, I will be interested in your thoughts on that and whether the book continued the story in further adventures.

I am super excited to get further the book. I'll let ya know. I think I will have more fun with it than the movie, but that is just me. I know you prefer movie versions, and this may be the case. But the book so far has been just the most delightful thing. The little extra descriptions have been entertaining, and it is just a simple read. Once I have finished assembling the book in good enough English, you'll be able to breeze through it. I'll make an extra large font version just for you.

I am also interested in seeing if Mariken has continued adventures (I just finished watching it and subbing yesterday, revising and correcting some last bits now). There's such a great set up for some things to happen.

sorta spoilerish, for maybe a few lines in the last episode of the series:

Spoiler: Yeah, there are potential for more adventures. They have new solid characters, with Rattejan, people Mariken just voluntold were to be her parents, a troupe of funny performer characters, they have a potential occupation for her to get involved with, the shenanigans they can get up to in a new city, a travelling lifestyle, and the pangs of missing the ones who parted ways or were left behind. Not to mention the usual extra side adventures that a TV series would have cut out. Don't want to spoil too much of the book to you, but what if Mariken was never chased by the Countess's guards in the city, but rather approached and nearly taken by city-creeps, people who followed the ideas of the Black Widow? What are strange groups of people like this, anyway? Can the devil be there just at the right time to save her? I'll also work on preparing the first 7 or 8 chapters next, it should be pretty fast.

[Night457]

Ha ha, my "preference" for movie versions is very new and only due to laziness and eye age. I used to refuse to watch movie adaptations when I had read and loved the book. I also used to insist on subs rather than dubs in ALL circumstances. Now, if I have already seen the version with original audio, then I accept watching an English dub just so that I don't have to read. (Of course I am most likely to do this with kung fu, kaiju, and anime.) And "extra large font"??? Isn't that something easily adjustable in the end result of most digital text documents anyway?

I read all your spoilers, including the ones to ghost.

[ghost]

Speaking of which, would you be willing to look at something in the Mariken German audio? I've run into a slight bump and I am wondering what exactly Mariken is trying to say near the end of the movie, at time 1:22:43. It starts with "Liebe Maria".

The AI got it correctly. She's really saying:

Liebe Maria, so war es, ja?
So war es, als es mich noch nicht gab.
Danke, dass ich meinen Vater und meine Mutter sehen durfte.

The English translation/meaning would be:

Dear Maria/Mary (the holy virgin?), that's how it was, right?
That's how it was when I didn't exist yet/when I wasn't born yet.
Thank you for letting me see my father and mother.

Possibly meaning, Mariken is still new at prayer and is asking if she's saying it right. Just an idea, please correct me if you know otherwise.

No, she only asks what it was like in the past. Nothing more.

I hope I have been helpful.

You're still lucky, that you only have to deal with Dutch. I'm still working on my Japanese movie, where Whipser gives you a transcript in unknown letters. There's on thing I've learned: Don't let Whisper translate the subtitles. Do it in the original language. Then use ChatGPT for the translation. You get much much much better results.

[Night457]

There's on thing I've learned: Don't let Whisper translate the subtitles. Do it in the original language. Then use ChatGPT for the translation. You get much much much better results.

Thank you for the advice. This may explain why my last attempt with Whisper made such a mess of what ought to have been a simple German-to-English translation from simple dialog. I was so disgusted that I stopped trying, again.

[ghost]

I translated another Japanese (already existing) subtitle file recently with ChatGPT. I was amazed! Only 2 or 3 words didn't fit in the translation. It was neary perfect! I do it in the "chat", 50 lines in one pass. Of course, it's a liitle work.

[pillowbaker]

...

I hope I have been helpful.

You're still lucky, that you only have to deal with Dutch. I'm still working on my Japanese movie, where Whipser gives you a transcript in unknown letters. There's on thing I've learned: Don't let Whisper translate the subtitles. Do it in the original language. Then use ChatGPT for the translation. You get much much much better results.

Thank you once again for your insight, ghost. Glad to see I am on the right track.

I am still trying to understand what she is trying to ask and say in the first and second lines:
so war es, ja?
So war es, als es mich noch nicht gab.

Or more specifically, what does she mean when she is asking, "that's how it was, right? That's how it was when I didn't exist yet/when I wasn't born yet." The lines make sense, but it just feels I am missing the context to understand what she's asking. This is how what was?

I do suppose the dialogue may be intended to be open-ended, and the listener is supposed to fill in the blank. She is observing Isabella and Joachim kissing in the woods, after all. The book does not have these extra lines, only the last one of her prayer.

I am open to ideas.