For the new year.....

[donkeykog]

HEY FLM'ers, I would like to see three changes. Of course up to the admin (as they do the work) and up to the other members. I think these would be good for the board.

1.) as recently discussed a TV section in the RELEASES (by Country) section and we do it like we do with shorts posting the country in the subject line. They don't quite fit in shorts cause they could mean weeks of watching, but aren't actually movies. Even among the Admin there is confusion on where to post. Since FLM was created we also have more then enough TV series in all the countries to give them their own space. (below I offer help)

Documentaries and professional Music Videos do not belong in the same section as Off-topic and Graveyard. They belong with [REL] film. (These two should be an easy fix)

Film is film, documentaries are no less important to worldwide film then shorts.
2.) [REL] Documentaries should be moved to the RELEASES (by Country) section and we do it like we do with shorts posting the country in the subject line. A separate [REQ] for Documentaries should be made.

Again, film is film and many important directors make movies and music videos. (ie. Spike Jones - Where the Wild Things Are)
3.) [REL] Music vids should be moved to the RELEASES (by Country) section and we do it like we do with shorts posting the country in the subject line. A separate [REQ] for Music Videos should be made.

Again Phuzz, Kev, Mimsy - as some of you know I do not mind doing the research as to what needs to be moved in the sections. I have the time at the moment and can help. It should save time on your part and I am happy to help make FLM even better .

[Phuzzy4242]

I'm against creating more forums just to be creating forums. There are already 64 of 'em. Things are in the "Other" section not because they're in some way bad, but because they are not movies. They are 'other' than movies, just like music videos are 'other' than movies.

There's no benefit to splitting documentaries into their respective countries - they'd just be harder to find. If you're talking about a separate Release and Request forum for documentaries, again what's the benefit? There are less than 20 [REQ] posts in Documentaries and the country is already posted in the subject line, so aside from being out of the "Other" group...

Same thing with Music Videos - Moving them to Releases/Requests just to get them out of 'Other' doesn't make sense, and I find zero/zip/nada/none [REQ]uest posts there. Why create an unneeded forum?

A separate television section - in the "Other" group - isn't out of the question for me, but again I see little need for it. We hashed out long ago that a short film was usually under 30 minutes but we've also stayed flexible and not insisted on it. Usually a television series is released in its country's Release section but if it's a one-shot and short enough, it's often (but not always) released in the Shorts section. Any advantage in having a separate forum just for television shows is murky to me - convince me why that would be better.

I'm not dead-set against changes if they make sense - I'll wait to see kev's and mimzy's comments, along with the other members - but it's something of a hassle to move lots of threads around, and without a clear benefit I think it's unnecessary.

[donkeykog]

I'm against creating more forums just to be creating forums

I am replying to clarify, I am really tired as I do this so here goes...

The only "new" forums would be (1) Tv shows in [REL] and (3) [REQ] forum for Tv shows, docs and MV.

The real work would be to find all the tv shows in the countries sections so they can be re-located to one [rel] section. (I offered my help there).

As far as re-locating the sections for docs and music vids....I don't know how it works, but it seems to me we just move them up some spaces? And I am not being sarcastic, I really don't know web design. But Docs and MVs are valid film some of which I spent a lot of time on, and they don't really belong with Forthcoming, Off-Topic and Graveyard.

Also, we do get requests on both. The docs get requests as I just posted one.
And on MV's we do have requests but currently members drop links off to be released or contact me directly to release for them.

Anywho, I am trying to get to bed but couldn't sleep so hope I made sense

[mimzy]

I'm not sure what is exactly meant by "TV show". A separate forum for TV series might make sense, because, unlike movies and shorts, there is no requirement to release those in full -- just the interesting episodes (example: [REL] In Aller Freundschaft (2002) TV series). Also for TV shows like the [REQ] Mini Playback Show, Ellen ([REL] Sia - Chandelier), etc.

I think mini-series, especially the ones of 2-3-4 episodes, but also, for example, [REL] Madita - the series (1979), [REL] Safari (1986) TV serial and many others should remain under normal country forums where they are.

[donkeykog]

Hey mimsy, I do mean tv series whole or incomplete. I think it would easier just to say all move to one Tv Series section, or all are posted in their respective countries. This came up because of Starfishes "Deadtime Stories" being placed in Shorts. Technically they are a collection of shorts under an hour. And we do have many single episodes that are the only FLM ones in a series like you mentioned (ie Grimm, Copper, Star Trek, Little House on the Prarie....)

The reason I say it would be easier all or none, is if we went on the basis of if its a complete series or just a few episodes it would be confusing. For example "Safari Sisters" is definitely a complete series, but what would you call "Deadtime Stories"? It is almost complete, but missing an episode. And what if a currently complete series gets another season (Masterchef Junior, Dance Moms), is it now incomplete?

I really don't have a dog in this race, but it I think it would be nice to have it separate as it is a separate form of media. It's not like dividing out comedy or horror.


Of course my dog in this race is the Documentaries and Music Videos being treated like valid film as the shorts are. With their own [REQ] boards and moved to the countries section up by the shorts.

[starfish21]

I can see how things could get quite confusing,i agree with Mimzy,a seperate section for complete series might be useful.

[donkeykog]

Ok now I am confused I agree with you Starfish, that a separate section would be nice for complete series.

[mimzy]

Hey mimsy, I do mean tv series whole or incomplete. I think it would easier just to say all move to one Tv Series section, or all are posted in their respective countries. This came up because of Starfishes "Deadtime Stories" being placed in Shorts.

Should be IMO under "United States", just as [REL] Bettkantengeschichten (1983-1990) TV series is under "Germany".

"Shorts" is more like for Vimeo shorts where you sometimes don't even know under which country it belongs. Originally the idea behind "Shorts & Online Streaming Movies" was that you could just drop web links; ed2k link was not required to make it a REL (this is of course not the case anymore). Before the "Shorts" section was created, REQs for online movies that nobody cared to "release" were cluttering the board, and many Vimeo and Youtube shorts were lumped together in a single thread.

The reason I say it would be easier all or none, is if we went on the basis of if its a complete series or just a few episodes it would be confusing. For example "Safari Sisters" is definitely a complete series, but what would you call "Deadtime Stories"? It is almost complete, but missing an episode. And what if a currently complete series gets another season (Masterchef Junior, Dance Moms), is it now incomplete?

I mean the decision is based on whether all episodes are FLM-relevant. Suppose there is an OT episode in "The Bold and the Beautiful". Should we ignore it because the series as a whole is not OT? Or keep it as REQ until somebody releases all 6093 episodes? I see the TV series section potentially as a place where single episodes of TV series and TV shows could be released.

As for Docs and Music Vids, I'll leave the decision to Phuzzy and Kev

[yoko]

I mean the decision is based on whether all episodes are FLM-relevant. Suppose there is an OT episode in "The Bold and the Beautiful". Should we ignore it because the series as a whole is not OT? Or keep it as REQ until somebody releases all 6093 episodes? I see the TV series section potentially as a place where single episodes of TV series and TV shows could be released.

Here is another example of such material. I recorded it from TV last year, but there wasn't a suitable section and I felt that it was off-topic, so I didn't release it.

2pa_dance_kids.jpg

Like this post to see ed2k links  [180.26 MiB]

[Phuzzy4242]

Music Videos just flat-out don't belong with full-length movies. Music Videos are not movies. At best they're shorts, but they shouldn't be mixed with shorts because THEY ARE NOT MOVIES. Even full-length concerts like [REL] Priscilla - Concert à l'Olympia (2003) [France] aren't movies and don't belong with them.

There's no 'stigma' to being in the same group as Verified Off-Topic and Graveyard. Would moving those two out of "Other" and into "Beyond" be enough?

If we don't want television shows classed as shorts, it'd be better to put them directly into their countries' Release or Request forums instead of creating additional ones, whether there's only one episode or an entire series. There's never been a requirement an entire series had to be released. It just seems to me it's better to keep all of a country's cinema/television work together in one place. I'd even go along with putting shorts back into each country's main Release/Request groups and eliminating those two separate forums.

There's not enough demand to make separate Request forums for Documentaries or Music Videos. There just isn't. How it's done now works with minimum fuss. We have enough forums - adding more isn't beneficial.