Originally, I was curious to see what an AI upscale could look like for this film. And now I find myself against my will defending this film in its dedicated topic.
Night457 wrote: Thu Jun 13, 2024 5:56 pm
So a crook plans to set up the kidnap and rape of a retard girl, and this is a COMEDY?
There's a big difference between planning something and taking action, right ? And no, it's not a comedy, I didn't laugh or smile while watching it. It is an improbable and unclassifiable love story.
Night457 wrote: Thu Jun 13, 2024 5:56 pm
Throw in some incest humor with the alternate title "I'll Take Her Like a Father" ha ha. What was Lattuada thinking? If that is what he finds funny then count me out.
One thing I could have agreed on is about the title "Le farò da padre" whose exact translation is "I'm going to be a father to her" is a line from the film. At that time, Saverio intends to marry Clotilde with his mother's agreement but he is well aware of her mental disability and that this marriage is only an amicable business arrangement and there is no question of him having sex with her at all ! He sees it as an adoption, that's what he explains to his old accomplice "I'm going to be a father to her".
It's a far cry from the complacent incest of some sexy Italian comedies of that time when young girls (Gloria Guido and Ornella Muti among others) happily sleep with their fathers as if it were a banal thing ! Very cheap films indeed with a more than dubious humor...
My vision of the film :
Spoiler:
This film is the story of a double transformation, that of a greedy and twisted crook (but he is exuberant which makes him sympathetic, a bit like Louis de Funès) who, discovering love for the first time, loses interest in money and becomes for Clotilde much more than a love partner but a real life assistant !
Incontinent, unable to express herself through words and to reason (apart from her screams of frustration), Clotilde is both mentally and motor disability : it is impossible for her to walk alone. Often prostrate in a vegetative state, her only source of happiness seems to be in the satisfaction of her adolescent sexual urges. This is how Anna, the family maid, has to benignly take on this task like a pioneer of sexual assistance (a profession that is still really unknown today). This routine is interrupted by Saverio. Clotilde spontaneously likes him very much. And when she is kidnapped, she takes advantage of him. Dazed, the crooked lawyer allows himself to be sexually abused. Little by little, they become a couple, Clotilde socializes and relaxes, while Saverio Mazzacolli discovers the joys of simple pleasures... But this affair remained clandestine, how could it be made official ? (For the rest, see the film, I've spoiled enough).
Films about the sexuality of the disabled are so rare that the Bambina is an exceptional exception, as is the thorny subject of sexual assistants for the disabled. Clotilde is the archetype of a new and unique character in cinema.
Night457 wrote: Thu Jun 13, 2024 5:56 pm
I do not have to watch it (but I downloaded it) and I will not apologize for making a quick judgment.
Quite an argument ! Are we on Twitter here or what ? What is this condescension ? A new form of cinephile segregation ? It would still be useful to see the film before judging it because for the moment I really feel like I'm dealing with the prejudices of a hater or a troll. What's the point of talking about a film you don't know to be provocative ? If I have to read this kind of bullshit, I might as well get out of here ...
If this post looks too long, just skip ahead to the last paragraph.
DaveTheBoss wrote: Sat Jun 15, 2024 11:08 pm And now I find myself against my will defending this film in its dedicated topic.
That is allowed! (And better here than in some other thread for an unrelated movie.) Since you have actually SEEN the film, you are very qualified to defend it. In fact, I am glad you have chosen to do so, because how it is described online just sounds so unbelievably awful that I was hoping there was more to it than that.
[If you are the Defense then I have taken on the role of Prosecution, apparently. The Prosecutor in a court case does not have to take EVERY thing into account nor allow for extenuating circumstances. They just have to focus on the wrongdoing. I was not arguing for BANNING or BURNING the movie but simply for why someone might not want to watch it. Oh horrors, the terrible punishment of a movie not being seen because of someone's choice based on publicly available information! If a dedicated Defender wants to get to personally know the Defendant, they can. That would be a bad idea for the Prosecutor.]
There's a big difference between planning something and taking action, right ?
One is bad and the other is worse. Just his planning it is bad enough. My moral judgments may be severe but they are consistent, and I will not pretend something is acceptable when it is not. Of course this is a fiction and plenty of people have done worse in real life, so I am only judging a made-up character in an unlikely scenario.
And no, it's not a comedy
I was going by how every single movie site online describes it: Comedy - Drama - Romance. The "Comedy" part I found hard to believe! I realize that comedy is frequently hard to translate from one culture to another, but there are limits to using that as an excuse. Ultimately, the people who are describing movies HAVE generally seen them, so I have to take into account what they say.
One thing I could have agreed on is about the title "Le farò da padre" whose exact translation is "I'm going to be a father to her" is a line from the film.
Your explanation and translation makes much more sense. The English mis-translation and provocative alternate title "I'll Take Her Like a Father" means he plans to fuck her like a father would. Italian I do NOT know, but English I DO know. Alternate titles are frequently the doing of the distributors and out of the control of writers and directors.
It's a far cry from the complacent incest of some sexy Italian comedies of that time when young girls (Gloria Guido and Ornella Muti among others) happily sleep with their fathers as if it were a banal thing !
Very good point. However, the fact that these films do exist should explain my reaction to the description of THIS one, don't you think? I am objecting to things that are truly in films I have seen. It should be no surprise that I expect more of the same.
I appreciate your vision of the film and it certainly is a good argument for its value. I can only seriously question ONE part of it:
Spoiler:
And when she is kidnapped, she takes advantage of him.
This is just sheer nonsense. The power imbalance between an adult male and a mentally and physically disabled teen girl is so great that it makes HER taking advantage of HIM ridiculous. It is simply a common male erotic fantasy taken to extremes.
(For the rest, see the film, I've spoiled enough).
My syncing subtitles for beginning, middle and end DOES cause problems in that department.
It would still be useful to see the film before judging it because for the moment I really feel like I'm dealing with the prejudices of a hater or a troll.
You are dealing with the prejudices of someone (perhaps like yourself) who has seen thousands of movies over the course of decades, some of which he has liked and some of which he has not liked. I know what I like and what I do not like, and I don't need to like what others like or remain open-minded to EVERYTHING. Otherwise learning from experience is impossible because a person would remain endlessly afraid to make a quick decision. Don't take movie opinions TOO seriously, because I certainly don't. Movies and music and other aesthetic matters are NOT that important in the grand scheme of things, certainly not important enough to get in a fistfight over. I definitely do NOT fall into the ridiculous hyperbole of those who say "Anyone who likes such-and-such is a horrible person and a moron." Movies take up too much time and there are too many available to have to actually watch a film before judging it suitable FOR ME TO WATCH IT. It is not at all difficult for me to figure out what kinds of films I am likely to enjoy because I have seen many varieties of movie already, and it takes less time to read about new potential watches than to actually watch them without any information. To put it in a humorous and crude fashion: if the information available tells me that something looks like shit and smells like shit, I don't have to actually TASTE it to make a final decision to NOT EAT IT. I don't need laboratory experiments either. I simply say it is shit and eat something else instead. I see this as pragmatic and rational, a way to make life easier for me. I don't have to subject myself to movies I do not expect to like. If you had any idea how many Tom Cruise movies I suffered through until I finally sensibly decided I would NEVER WATCH ANY TOM CRUISE MOVIE EVER AGAIN ... because Tom Cruise is shit. If other people like his movies (it seems many do) that is fine, but that is no reason to back down from my opinion. (I don't like liver either.)
THANK YOU very much for discussing the movie! I have no problem with amicably agreeing to disagree on just about any topic, and I WANT to hear from people who disagree with me. It gets to be really really boring listening only to opinions that agree with my own because then there is never an opportunity to learn. It is all too common online for people to seek out only those with the same ideas, and then they get trapped in their own little mental bubble. I don't like that. I prefer to be challenged. I just know that ultimately movies are mainly entertainment, and I would rather fall asleep to the ones I will like.
Night457 wrote: Sun Jun 16, 2024 1:28 am
THANK YOU very much for discussing the movie!
I wondered about this job commonly called "sex surrogate", I discovered this week this film (The Sessions, 2012) with Helen Hunt in a surprising role, I was appalled to see an american forgotten actress show herself naked despite her age (even if the role requires it)...
[File]
Night457 wrote: Sun Jun 16, 2024 1:28 am
I can only seriously question ONE part of it:
Spoiler:
And when she is kidnapped, she takes advantage of him.
This is just sheer nonsense. The power imbalance between an adult male and a mentally and physically disabled teen girl is so great that it makes HER taking advantage of HIM ridiculous. It is simply a common male erotic fantasy taken to extremes.
My answer :
Spoiler:
No one has power over her, she does what she wants as she sees fit. Moreover, if he doesn't give in, she will scream and Saverio will be spotted (because they are still in the mother's house, the kidnapping is in progress) and his plan will be screwed... Watch the movie ! I'm spoiling again !
DaveTheBoss wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2024 4:37 pm
I wondered about this job commonly called "sex surrogate", I discovered this week this film (The Sessions, 2012) with Helen Hunt in a surprising role, I was appalled to see an american forgotten actress show herself naked despite her age (even if the role requires it)...
Another love story (which I enjoyed) with a disabled man played by a newbie called Mel Gibson (Tim, 1979). It just goes to show that I like parity, I'm not sexist .
HDLight link (English Sub & French, Original version) :
[File]
Night457 wrote: Sun Jun 16, 2024 1:28 am
If you had any idea how many Tom Cruise movies I suffered through until I finally sensibly decided I would NEVER WATCH ANY TOM CRUISE MOVIE EVER AGAIN ... because Tom Cruise is shit.
You hate Steven Spielberg and Tom Cruise, you're really against the grain. I hope you like Mel Gibson .
...
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