[REL] Tatort (TV Series 1970-)

[BugMeNot9999]

See deadman's post in the 'Falsche Bewegung' thread because apparently she HAS said something about that movie. Maybe deadman recalls his source.

Yes, that's right, I found this link where it says that she was apparently considering legal action even regarding her scene in Falsche Bewegung (if I understand it correctly).

https://www.focus.de/kultur/kino_tv/nas ... 98188.html

[Night457]

I have noticed you are very good at finding and citing media sources, BugMeNot9999. Thank you. I confess that most of the time, the best that I can do is remember that I "read something somewhere". IF I AM LUCKY, I might even it remember it correctly and then find it again, but probably not. I clicked through other links stemming from yours and continued with page-translations and more reading.

It is very irritating and bewildering that she supposedly has a problem with her scenes in 'Falsche Bewegung' but not with the person primarily responsible for anything that happened on the set, director Wim Wenders. She worked with him repeatedly over the years and according to the article is still on good terms with him. Just how traumatic could her experience have been if she does not resent him for it? Perhaps not at all? When there is good evidence that an octogenarian committed actual crimes in the past then I am all in favor of tossing him in a deep dark prison hole for him to spend his remaining years, but here that does not seem to be the case. Her lawyer it seems has framed it not as a personal harm to Ms. Kinski but as a technicality of contract law: she was a minor and could not legally give her consent then, and she is refusing her consent now. Thus supposedly those works can not be legally broadcast on TV and streaming. I know even less about the German legal system than I do the U.S. one so I do not know how successful such an argument would be. Maybe if they negotiate a new contract and money is paid, then she will give her consent and broadcasts can continue? {cynicism emoji}

Translation, regarding Tatort:

"Nastassja Kinski was actually unaccompanied on the set when the scenes were being filmed," says her lawyer Christian Schertz. It was "logically impossible" that she would have given legally valid consent as a minor. The actress has withdrawn her consent for the future.

https://www.bunte.de/stars/star-news/tv ... iderrufen.

[deadman]

It is very irritating and bewildering that she supposedly has a problem with her scenes in 'Falsche Bewegung' but not with the person primarily responsible for anything that happened on the set, director Wim Wenders. She worked with him repeatedly over the years and according to the article is still on good terms with him. Just how traumatic could her experience have been if she does not resent him for it? Perhaps not at all? When there is good evidence that an octogenarian committed actual crimes in the past then I am all in favor of tossing him in a deep dark prison hole for him to spend his remaining years, but here that does not seem to be the case.

I'm not a mind reader, but she isn't acting the way people normally do when they've been exploited or assaulted - Adele Haenel and Judith Godrèche are good examples of what I mean. Both are very angry at the directors in question and others who knew what was happening but stood by and said nothing.

Here's what you get if you look up Nastassja Kinski on aznude.com:

https://www.aznude.com/search.html?q=Na ... gsc.page=1

Four pages of results. You rarely see anything like this, she did topless and nude scenes continuously from the early 70's into the 2000's. Seems like most of her films contained nudity. Some quite a bit of it. The fact that she's gone back to work with Wim Wenders more than once and remains friends after all this time doesn't suggest the kind of anger Adele and Judith have toward the people they felt violated their trust.

In 2022 Nastassja made a return to acting after a ten year hiatus. Enough time for the younger generation to mostly not know who she is. This is why I'm suspicious that perhaps she's trying to drum up a little controversy to elevate her public profile. When something's already out there and you can't put the genie back in the bottle, what's the point of making a big stink about it anyway? All it does is call attention to what you supposedly don't want people seeing. Unless that's the point?

Here's an article published back in February of this year which was one of the things I read before making the post Night referenced earlier (the second link is an English translation of the original German page):

https://www.t-online.de/unterhaltung/tv ... mmen-.html
https://www-t--online-de.translate.goog ... _hist=true

[BugMeNot9999]

I have noticed you are very good at finding and citing media sources, BugMeNot9999.

A little trick (maybe you already know it): I search in the national domain where it is most likely to find the news (site:*.de) or by entering words in the language of the country ("Nastassja Kinski" "szene").

I'm not a mind reader, but she isn't acting the way people normally do when they've been exploited or assaulted - Adele Haenel and Judith Godrèche are good examples of what I mean. Both are very angry at the directors in question and others who knew what was happening but stood by and said nothing.

I obviously agree with you in distinguishing cases of actual abuse (never justifiable) such as those of Haenel and Godrèche, from those situations in which an actress (or actor, of course) as an adult complains about being exploited in scenes filmed when she was a minor (normally a teenager). The complaint can be based on the fact that the director has, in her opinion, crossed a certain line, but more importantly in the lack of awareness on her part, as a minor, of what she was doing. These two factors could apply to so many actresses, so why do only some complain? I think that if they did, it would be disrespectful to their parents, who authorized those scenes at the time. In the case of Nastassja Kinski, unlike others, the duty of that respect is missing (especially and rightly so for her father Klaus).

[deadman]

In the case of Nastassja Kinski, unlike others, the duty of that respect is missing (especially and rightly so for her father Klaus).

Klaus Kinski was an egotistical, temperamental asshole. Very hard to work with and extremely unlikable. He abandoned his family when Nastassja was 9. I wouldn't respect him either in her place.

A lot of this comes down to what a girl is used to. In countries where topless/nude beaches or other outdoor venues are common they get used to being unclothed in front of thousands of people. It's a little weird to be on camera with everyone looking at you, but no more so than getting up in front of the class to deliver a report in school. Hardly traumatic.

In the US where I live (as I've mentioned before) women of any age don't go outside topless, even in those states where it's perfectly legal. In their own homes women and girls don't walk around naked in front of family members. Nudity is taboo to an almost comical degree. Finding young actresses who would be willing to take it all off in a movie is almost impossible these days. To say nothing of parents who'd be willing to let them. Back in the 70's or 80's you still could, not anymore.

It's all cultural though. I don't think you can make a blanket statement about nude scenes being harmful to underage actors. It depends on whether they're being forced out of their comfort zones or not.

[BugMeNot9999]

It's all cultural though. I don't think you can make a blanket statement about nude scenes being harmful to underage actors. It depends on whether they're being forced out of their comfort zones or not.

I did not explain myself well (sorry for my English). I did not say that all nude scenes are harmful to underage actors, but only those where some directors (especially in the 1970s and 1980s) crossed certain boundaries (very detailed and explicit scenes), or when only as adults did the actresses fully realize (but were probably already uncomfortable during) that they would not want to do those scenes. There is the recent case of Mara Goyet (I posted it in the “La vie de famille” thread) which is quite meaningful.

[deadman]

There is the recent case of Mara Goyet (I posted it in the “La vie de famille” thread) which is quite meaningful.

It's our old friend Jacques Doillon again. The same guy who inserted himself into the film and wrote in a more intimate love scene so he could make out with Judith Godrèche over and over in rehearsals. He sort of reminds me of Harvey Weinstein. Same aggressive and intimidating approach. In Mara Goyet's case she was obviously not comfortable with the scene at the time, even getting up in the middle of a take and running out. Yet they continued to pressure her. From everything she says in the article it was not a good environment and pretty much killed her love of acting and future movie career.

That definitely qualifies as being forced out of her comfort zone. It shouldn't have happened.

[Sully23]

That she feels ashamed of her scene doesn't make sense.
Just because she appears naked in this series but her other appearances don't count? the reason would be because the series has more repetitions than her films that often fall into oblivion.

A lot of this comes down to what a girl is used to. In countries where topless/nude beaches or other outdoor venues are common they get used to being unclothed in front of thousands of people.

I don't live in Europe but I know very well how their customs are but it doesn't mean that all Germans, French or Nordic people do nudism contrary to what those of us who live on the other side of the atlantic think, it is like the cliche of the showers/dressing rooms in schools (even if it is mixed), Amalie Dollerup is said that in her school she suffered bullyng for her scenes, not because she did it, she didn't see it coming.

[BugMeNot9999]

I don't live in Europe but I know very well how their customs are but it doesn't mean that all Germans, French or Nordic people do nudism contrary to what those of us who live on the other side of the atlantic think, it is like the cliche of the showers/dressing rooms in schools (even if it is mixed), Amalie Dollerup is said that in her school she suffered bullyng for her scenes, not because she did it, she didn't see it coming.

I live in Europe and I agree that the attitude toward nudity here is (or perhaps was) different than in the U.S., but then every situation is different and sometimes even age may not be the main factor. Irma Huntus was already 17 but had big problems when she returned to her hometown in Finland after filming Milka.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0081160/tr ... =tr7589704
(original source is the book 'Molle: Rauni Mollbergin elämä ja elokuvat', id=vFmmEAAAQBAJ)

As for Amalie Dollerup, she actually in interviews never referred to her nude scenes. From what I understand, her classmates saw her as a star who was always busy making films, so socializing was not easy for her. But it is likely that they were also talking about the scenes (you know kids can be mean).

https://www.alt.dk/artikler/amalie-doll ... ro/3139747

[Sully23]

But it's not all bad, Brooke Shields says she has no regrets, the Is-slottet girls just laugh when asked about the scene, and I think there are many who will just see it as a nice memory.

Traumas tend to happen, I had an unpleasant performance in my school theatre, the bullying lasted for months, I felt like Bart when he asked 'come on, say your thing' but eventually the tide goes out and all is forgotten, at least that's what filmmakers should know when advising their rising stars.