International broadcast standards HD 4k 8k and beyond

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Night457
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Re: International broadcast standards HD 4k 8k and beyond

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mimzy wrote:I'm not using streaming services when you only can watch the movie once or twice and not own it, so they won't get my money.
Yet somehow some people find ways around that, just like recording a pay-per-view broadcast on the VCR ... :)
I'm only using free software and watching Bluray with it is illegal anyway
WHAAAAT?!! Where? Who says?

Why in heavens name can someone not watch a purchased blu-ray with whatever will play it? Even if that is true somewhere, how could it be enforced? Do you live somewhere the police do random searches of computers to see if they have blu-ray playback software?
Does anybody receive 4k broadcast channels with any interesting content that are actually not encrypted and can be saved on disk?
I would be interested in knowing this as well. At most I have seen a few FLM-type films on YouTube in 4k, although I think I ended up downloading it just in 1080p.
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Re: International broadcast standards HD 4k 8k and beyond

Post by mimzy »   1 likes

Night457 wrote:
mimzy wrote:I'm not using streaming services when you only can watch the movie once or twice and not own it, so they won't get my money.
Yet somehow some people find ways around that, just like recording a pay-per-view broadcast on the VCR ... :)
Or downloading the movie via p2p ;)

My point is that streaming services don't have the added value for me. On the contrary, a file downloaded from p2p has more value than the permit to use the streaming service when and how *they* want.
Night457 wrote:
I'm only using free software and watching Bluray with it is illegal anyway
WHAAAAT?!! Where? Who says?

Why in heavens name can someone not watch a purchased blu-ray with whatever will play it? Even if that is true somewhere, how could it be enforced?
You can only watch Bluray if you have the disc decryption key. I've bought few Bluray discs and luckily the key had been cracked and put into a database that I could download from the net, but I assume watching all the latest Bluray discs with free software is not possible. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_ ... ent_System)

BTW, in order to watch commercial DVDs on Linux you also need illegal piece of software that cracks the encryption. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeCSS)
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Re: International broadcast standards HD 4k 8k and beyond

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mimzy wrote:You can only watch Bluray if you have the disc decryption key. I've bought few Bluray discs and luckily the key had been cracked and put into a database that I could download from the net, but I assume watching all the latest Bluray discs with free software is not possible. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_ ... ent_System)

BTW, in order to watch commercial DVDs on Linux you also need illegal piece of software that cracks the encryption. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeCSS)
I had no idea. I have never had a blu-ray computer drive so did not have to deal with this! What a load of horseshit. These articles made my head spin with their endless acronyms and tech jargon so forgive my slowness, but you are only "allowed" to use your computer blu-ray drive to play back commercial blu-rays with officially licensed software, but not freeware? Because the freeware does not necessarily have encryption protocols designed to prevent copying? And since the old official software has been cracked, you "have" to buy newer official software to play newer discs because the old software no longer works for them? Well no wonder people just use the hacker software!

However, I did not get the impression that the free software was ILLEGAL TO USE, much as the industry may like it to be. And when they took legal action against the distributors of the software, they seem to have failed. (Maybe because even the courts could not understand all the technological jargon?) The hackers dare to disobey their corporate rulers but the consumers using the hacked encryption keys are not disobeying the law -- at least from what I understood from the Wikipedia articles, which apparently have not been updated in a while.

I know for a fact that brand-new blu-rays very quickly show up on torrents, so the corporations apparently spent a lot of time and effort implementing ineffective encryption. Of course I did not download them, I was ONLY looking for shared public domain material and just HAPPENED to see these. ;)

(Wow, I am glad I created a new thread for this, which is very interesting to me but clearly has absolutely nothing to do with whatever movie release originated the discussion.)
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Re: International broadcast standards HD 4k 8k and beyond

Post by mimzy »   0 likes

Night457 wrote:you are only "allowed" to use your computer blu-ray drive to play back commercial blu-rays with officially licensed software, but not freeware? Because the freeware does not necessarily have encryption protocols designed to prevent copying? And since the old official software has been cracked, you "have" to buy newer official software to play newer discs because the old software no longer works for them?
That is a good summary, yes.
Night457 wrote:However, I did not get the impression that the free software was ILLEGAL TO USE, much as the industry may like it to be. And when they took legal action against the distributors of the software, they seem to have failed. (Maybe because even the courts could not understand all the technological jargon?) The hackers dare to disobey their corporate rulers but the consumers using the hacked encryption keys are not disobeying the law -- at least from what I understood from the Wikipedia articles, which apparently have not been updated in a while.
That is in principle true, but since distributing the decryption keys is illegal (even if it works well in practice, just like p2p filesharing), there is no guarantee that I can watch all discs that I buy. This obviously lessens my motivation to buy blu-ray discs.
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Re: International broadcast standards HD 4k 8k and beyond

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mimzy wrote:That is in principle true, but since distributing the decryption keys is illegal (even if it works well in practice, just like p2p filesharing), there is no guarantee that I can watch all discs that I buy. This obviously lessens my motivation to buy blu-ray discs.
Obviously that makes playback on a computer drive problematic and I can see that as a demotivator. I totally get it. That is why I saw their restrictions as so incredibly stupid.

But I have never had a problem with a disc being "too new" for either of my stand-alone blu players, and one of them is a discontinued model by a company that no longer manufactures ANY blu players, and it has not had a software update in years. I have not upgraded my computer to have a blu-drive, although that is a possibility for the future ... maybe.

This just guarantees that when I sit down to watch a movie on blu-ray, I am doing so sitting comfortably in my comfy recliner and basking in the glow of my big TV, not hunched in front of my computer tapping on the keyboard doing other stuff and not really paying attention to the tiny PIP video window. Maybe that is why I so frequently fall asleep before the movie is over!
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Re: International broadcast standards HD 4k 8k and beyond

Post by mimzy »   0 likes

Night457 wrote:But I have never had a problem with a disc being "too new" for either of my stand-alone blu players, and one of them is a discontinued model by a company that no longer manufactures ANY blu players, and it has not had a software update in years.
I think it may need a software update if the drive key leaked, but getting drive key from a hardware player is rather difficult.

Anyway, new formats are often pushed by the industry, because in addition to selling new discs and hardware, there is a good opportunity for improving copy protection also.
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Re: International broadcast standards HD 4k 8k and beyond

Post by Nasuada »   1 likes

Before I start, I will let you know that I don't read all postings here. So I'm sorry, if something would be double. There are a lot of text here ;-)
Night457 wrote: If German broadcasters WANTED to broadcast in 1080p, surely they COULD, right? No one is forbidding them from doing so? Surely they are technologically capable of doing it?
The german Television (public TV and some private) send in Full HD, but you need to use the right Hardware or Service. You can watch it in 1080p if you using (for example) a DVB-T2 receiver or if you watching over Magenta TV from the German Telekom. In a Tech Forum from the Telekom I read around Magenta IP TV, that you need a "newer" Hardware to see it in Full HD and it also will check the quality of your internet bandwidth in the Background to deliver the "best experience". Also I read, that some users having trouble with the Amazon Fire TV Solutions to get the Magenta Stream in Full HD (1080). The best seems to be an Apple TV or (surprise) the Magenta TV Stick.
From the Magenta Team I found that interesting Info around the quality who you can get:
"There are 6 Quality Levels, 4x SD, 2x HD.

154 kBit/s
590 kBit/s 480x270 (25Hz)
1245 kBit/s 640x360 (25Hz)
2486 kBit/s 960x540 (50Hz)
4869 kBit/s 1280x720 (50Hz)
8741 kBit/s 1920x1080(50Hz)"
Night457 wrote:I do know that Amazon, Netflix and iTunes all seem to have content limited to certain markets, and people have to play around with VPNs and proxies to get what they want.
I never will understand that and I still hope and wait for an Pan-European Movie Store from Apple, but they still only have that for Music.
The problem is the complex structures of the film studios that do not negotiate / own international rights to release the films on media or cinema. That's one of the reason why I love the movie festival "International Berlinale" so much, because there you get the chance to see movies from around the globe. In the same time the having also the very important "European Film Marked", so with a bit of look a movie who running at the Berlinale, get some more attention.
Night457 wrote:
I wish I had the money to be one of those buyers! :)
I wish everyone in the U.S. had cheap 8k streaming internet![/quote]

I'm still living in the Full HD world with 1080p max and I'm happy with that. For me it takes a lot of time to see and accept the difference between DVD and BluRay (I think that happen because of a good upscaling). Now I'm often pissed, if I got a fresh movie release only on DVD and not on BD or better... Just a DVD but a Full HD as a digital version on iTunes. The problem for me is, that I love to buy DVD's or BDs to have it in my shelf... So I often buy the DVD first and wait for a price drop on iTunes to get it also in HD (or hanging around on this Board).
Night457 wrote:It aggravates me no end that some boutique labels continue to do releases without improved subtitles
I give you one more fact... I see a lot of movies at the festival with english or german Subs, but there is often no chance to get that subs for a final release from anyone.
I try to get Subs for Upp i det blå (https://www.first-loves.com/forums/view ... +i+det+blå) for example over the DVD / BD publisher, but they haven't it (or will not give them). So I don't understand why they put the subs in the trash, when they are existing from professional translators?
Night457 wrote:I had no idea. I have never had a blu-ray computer drive so did not have to deal with this! What a load of horseshit. These articles made my head spin with their endless acronyms and tech jargon so forgive my slowness, but you are only "allowed" to use your computer blu-ray drive to play back commercial blu-rays with officially licensed software, but not freeware? Because the freeware does not necessarily have encryption protocols designed to prevent copying? And since the old official software has been cracked, you "have" to buy newer official software to play newer discs because the old software no longer works for them? Well no wonder people just use the hacker software!
Some years ago I'm starting to importing BDs outside of Europe and from that point I run in trouble, because of the Code (A, B, C). BD's with Region free (ABC) are rare or only from some studios. I look around for a drive for my mediacenter, but I give up after I saw how expensive the hardware is, who have not any restriction. So I decide me to get an external BD Drive for my Computer (Mac). The next thing was the Software, because Apple still not have any own Software who can play BDs (only a free DVD Player is delivered in Mac OS for years now) and since the iTunes Movie store I gave up my hope for a BD Player. But I found the Macgo Mac Blu-ray Player who solve that Problem for me, but you need to pay for that. But it works perfect for me for a long time with any BD, so I did not to pay again and again to let play my movies on the Computer.
The good thing with that Player was (or still is?), that when you play the disc without the menu directly, you can play all BD's from around the globe (i think they named it Quick Play in the past). If you want to start the BD with a Menu (there was no Pro version when I bought it), you need to set a region, but I was still able to using Quick Play. A bit later I start to found a solution how I can safe the BDs on my HD to let play them directly on my Apple TV over AirPlay with the free Software named MakeMKV (https://www.makemkv.com - I used it for years now and it's still in Beta, so you can get every time a free license over the Board of the Page). The Software is running on Win and Mac and with that great tool you can safe near every BD on Disc. After importing the BD, you can convert the Movie (if you want) with the free tool "HandBrake". It can happen that MakeMKV can't rip the BD when it's totally new, but after some time they ad the code with an Update of the Software.
So at the end it's very easy to safe an BD on HD for free with only two Applications.
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Re: International broadcast standards HD 4k 8k and beyond

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Nasuada wrote:Before I start, I will let you know that I don't read all postings here. So I'm sorry, if something would be double. There are a lot of text here ;-)
Wait, are you saying that I ramble on and on?

True. :lol:

Your post provided information that was new to me, so I do not think it has been covered in this thread ... unless my memory is really really bad.
The problem is the complex structures of the film studios that do not negotiate / own international rights to release the films on media or cinema.
Yes! Traditionally there would be local agents that would buy the rights for their regions, but I have noticed many cases where certain markets are left untapped because the studios do not think they can make enough money to justify the investment. So the smaller films get ignored. I would THINK that online streaming would be less of a risk (no cost of film prints and such), but still there is so much left out.
I'm still living in the Full HD world with 1080p max and I'm happy with that.
Hey, I still occasionally watch videotape and enjoy it. I will take whatever I can get from 360p to 2160p and beyond. I will never say "Oh no, the quality is just TOO GOOD for me!"

I did finally stop BUYING videotape and DVD this past year, because it was only for too-expensive rare items, often already used -- and people online had already ripped and shared it.
I give you one more fact... I see a lot of movies at the festival with english or german Subs, but there is often no chance to get that subs for a final release from anyone.
TRUE!!!! All the time here at FLM I am looking for nonexistent subtitles for movies that I KNOW had film festival subtitles. Then they get released on home media without any subtitles, not even hard-of-hearing subtitles in their native language. I find that especially insulting. I can understand not being interested in marketing a film to a foreign audience, but to ignore the hearing impaired in your own country?? Despicable.
I try to get Subs for Upp i det blå (https://www.first-loves.com/forums/view ... +i+det+blå) for example over the DVD / BD publisher, but they haven't it (or will not give them).
FYI for this movie: opensubtitles, subscene and isubtitles have subtitles in Swedish, Finnish, Norwegian and Danish. They can be machine-translated.
So I don't understand why they put the subs in the trash, when they are existing from professional translators?

Because they are DICKHEADS! Well, licensing rights for home media and streaming means paying someone again for the work done for the theatrical release, and subtitles are low priority. Per my comment above, any translations were sourced from the original dialog transcribed, so there is no excuse not to have at least same-language subtitles for the home market.
Some years ago I'm starting to importing BDs outside of Europe and from that point I run in trouble, because of the Code (A, B, C).
And I import the European & Asian releases to the U.S.! Back in the DVD days I switched to a multi-region player and never looked back. I have only barely begun learning how it may be more difficult to have a region-free computer blu-ray drive.

I also use MakeMKV and Handbrake, although I have not with a blu-ray disc. They are great tools!
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Re: International broadcast standards HD 4k 8k and beyond

Post by mimzy »   0 likes

Nasuada wrote:The german Television (public TV and some private) send in Full HD, but you need to use the right Hardware or Service. You can watch it in 1080p if you using (for example) a DVB-T2 receiver or if you watching over Magenta TV from the German Telekom. In a Tech Forum from the Telekom I read around Magenta IP TV, that you need a "newer" Hardware to see it in Full HD and it also will check the quality of your internet bandwidth in the Background to deliver the "best experience". Also I read, that some users having trouble with the Amazon Fire TV Solutions to get the Magenta Stream in Full HD (1080). The best seems to be an Apple TV or (surprise) the Magenta TV Stick.
From the Magenta Team I found that interesting Info around the quality who you can get:
"There are 6 Quality Levels, 4x SD, 2x HD.

154 kBit/s
590 kBit/s 480x270 (25Hz)
1245 kBit/s 640x360 (25Hz)
2486 kBit/s 960x540 (50Hz)
4869 kBit/s 1280x720 (50Hz)
8741 kBit/s 1920x1080(50Hz)"
For us it would be interesting to know, which streams can be actually saved on your personal harddisk or watched with VLC, for example. The devices you mention are probably view-only.
Nasuada wrote:A bit later I start to found a solution how I can safe the BDs on my HD to let play them directly on my Apple TV over AirPlay with the free Software named MakeMKV (https://www.makemkv.com - I used it for years now and it's still in Beta, so you can get every time a free license over the Board of the Page). The Software is running on Win and Mac and with that great tool you can safe near every BD on Disc. After importing the BD, you can convert the Movie (if you want) with the free tool "HandBrake". It can happen that MakeMKV can't rip the BD when it's totally new, but after some time they ad the code with an Update of the Software.
I've used MakeMKV few times, but it is closed-source program (thus freeware, but not free software) and the free license must be refreshed every month or so. Then I found that by downloading just the key database from the net, I can watch and rip blu-ray with normal software like VLC.
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Re: International broadcast standards HD 4k 8k and beyond

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mimzy wrote:For us it would be interesting to know, which streams can be actually saved on your personal harddisk or watched with VLC, for example. The devices you mention are probably view-only.
I keep hearing about recording a stream live directly from the graphics card and I know people here have done it, but I never have. Someday I will encounter something that forces me to do it.
I've used MakeMKV few times, but it is closed-source program (thus freeware, but not free software) and the free license must be refreshed every month or so.
I do find that annoying, but there is plenty of software that I am "forced" to update more often than that. It is at least small enough that the install goes quickly.
Then I found that by downloading just the key database from the net, I can watch and rip blu-ray with normal software like VLC.
I knew it could playback and live-record, but VLC can RIP the disks also???!!! I had no idea. That is something I should look into.
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