[REL] Princ od papira (2008) [Serbia]

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Night457
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Re: [REL] Princ od papira (2008) [Serbia]

Post by Night457 »   0 likes

pillowbaker wrote: Thu Oct 27, 2022 12:01 am Another interesting thing, check out the youtube link above at time 3:51. "Chewbacca" is a word, or phrase, or part of a phrase in Serbian language.
Since you are busy on translating the whole movie, I decided to check out this one line, using the subtitles you shared.
English:
Yes I know. You have sold your apartment and bought a house. Grandma told me.

Russian:
Да, знаю. Вы продали квартиру и купили дом. Бабушка мне сказала.
Da, znayu. Vy prodali kvartiru i kupili dom. Babushka mne skazala.

Serbian:
Да, знам. Продали сте свој стан купио кућу. Бака ми је рекла.
Da, znam. Prodali ste svoj stan kupio kuću. Baka mi je rekla.
I started laughing when I read the Serbian transliterated to the Latin alphabet and listened to it in Google Translate.

These two words at the end of one sentence and the beginning of the next:
Serbian:
кућу. Бака
kuću. Baka

English:
house. Grandma
Take out the period between them and you get "кућу Бака" / "kuću baka" / "Grandma's house".

Pronounce the Serbian yourself or play it in Google Translate, and it sounds like "koo Chewbacca" indeed.

:lol:

Total coincidence.

(My apologies to the Serbs. Our misunderstanding of your language is funny, not the language itself.)
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Re: [REL] Princ od papira (2008) [Serbia]

Post by pillowbaker »   0 likes

Night457 wrote: Thu Oct 27, 2022 6:38 am Yeah ... that YouTube version would take some more work because you have to listen for the correct spots rather than just syncing text to text. I have not checked out your results yet. As for technique, I suggest "Point Sync..." with "Set sync point" at a determinable point (or points) at the beginning, AND another at the end. "Apply" and then "Ok" and then check your work in multiple spots in the video. (And don't forget to save it. Really annoying when I make changes and then forget to save them, which I did recently! :oops: )

...

* Groan. * That sounds like the madness of how I did it for a long time, except that I had 2 Notepad files and 2 Wordpad files. (Original and one alternate language, with two English machine translations.) Really, really, you must stick with finishing the translation from only one video version, with the original Russian in sync with the English so that they match up in translator mode and you don't have to use Notepad at all.

...

Well, you can resync the Russian to match the newly-synced translation, then they will match up again in "translator mode". (Use Point sync via other subtitle.) Or see further below.

...

My own inclination from a long time making it difficult for myself is this: (1) Save unedited original subtitles separately so that you have a backup if there is a catastrophe. (2) Do your work on a separate in-progress file. (3) Pick ONE video version with translated subtitles and original language subtitles matching its sync, and use "translator mode" to compare them. Don't use alternate Notepad files at all if you can avoid it. (4) When you are done translating to your satisfaction, resync the results to any other video version you care about.
Thank you thank you for the further steps regarding the ins and outs of the program and efficient methods. :mrgreen: :D These mistakes I'm making are really solidifying understanding of these better methods. When I loaded up the original Russian srt into the resynched subs to do more translation editing, I initially wondered, how did it get so misaligned! And then, "oooooooh, I get it. Because I realigned everything."

So you say I can transfer my translation edits to the new BK subs by taking my newest English edited srt and "Point sync via other subtitle", using the BK subs as the other file? I am wondering if I even screwed up any possibility of that since all of my editing and synching have changed the numbers assigned to each line. You see, if you look at the srt for my last attached file, there's a lot of this:
4
00:00:18,818 --> 00:00:22,341

6
00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:32,429

8
00:00:38,608 --> 00:00:42,233

9
00:00:42,546 --> 00:00:45,234
It goes on and on. The subs still function, but with the amount of garbage in there, I don't know how. I wondering if this will interfere with properly pointing sync via other subs.

I would suggest either working from the ulozto Russian subtitles with their sync, or the blizzardkid 720p cloud.mail Russian subtitles and THEIR sync. Let the YouTube version wait ... or even skip it entirely if you wish.
This is exactly the plan. I hope to be able to transfer my translation editing over to the new file using the "Point sync via other subtitle" in SubtitleEdit that you mentioned. Otherwise, I don't mind transferring all my work over by hand (as long as I'm leaving notepad behind!)

I have looked at the different video versions now. I really dislike the YouTube version. The watermark is SO large, and occasionally we get a message like this:
Screenshot (118).png
Another reason I am so glad you pointed out the blizzardkid video! I was resigned to work with a slightly better quality version, partially because it would be more work and I could get my hands dirty in a project to learn more about SE. But the audio quality and volume is considerably lower. I guess just how it happens sometimes. Clear, loud audio in an old encode, subdued audio from slightly higher quality encodes, they get released with whatever they come with.

And you looked in that Chewbacca word! :lol: :lol: Yeah, I listened to it over and over, and while I understand Lucas and his story/lore crew might have used other languages for wordbuilding, I was also thinking this was too coincidental. And the word is divided by a period!? The way Julia (Yutsa? I'll check the credits.) speaks the line must have been "yougotahouse.grandmatoldme".

Curious, did you derive those Serbian subs by reverse translating?
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Re: [REL] Princ od papira (2008) [Serbia]

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So you say I can transfer my translation edits to the new BK subs by taking my newest English edited srt and "Point sync via other subtitle", using the BK subs as the other file?
Well, that is not how I would phrase it. You are not transferring the edits, you are resyncing a file.

Like this, for example:
You have 'Princ od papira.uloz.en.srt' (completely translated and edited).
Make a copy of that file and rename that copy 'Princ od papira.blizzard.en.srt'
This will still have the same sync as the uloz file, which is wrong for the blizzardkid.
So open it in Subtitle Edit, and "Point sync via other subtitle" --
And that OTHER subtitle will be 'Princ od papira.blizzard.ru.srt',
which was downloaded from cloud.mail.ru just like the blizzardkid HDTV video was.
The Russian (blizzardkid version) is already in sync with the video (blizzardkid version), so you will be resyncing the copy of your English edits to match its timing.
Of course you need to have your files named clearly so you do not confuse which Russian or English goes with which video, and keep track of which files are already synced.

Got it?

I saw the blank lines when I looked at it in Notepad, but not in Subtitle Edit when I opened it by itself. That is because Subtitle Edit omits displaying blank lines, maybe? Open the file in Subtitle Edit (NOT in translator mode, which can be disabled under File just like it can be enabled) and SAVE it again, and it SHOULD eliminate the blank lines in both Subtitle Edit AND Notepad, and make a smaller file. I am pretty sure they were generated in the first place when you opened a non-matching translator subtitle. It was then that you had a whole bunch of lines NOT matching up, so it generated blanks. Also, as long as you were resyncing the entire file and NOT altering individual lines here and there, the original sync should be recoverable. But of course it is better if you don't try and edit multiple different syncs in the first place.
Curious, did you derive those Serbian subs by reverse translating?
Yeah. I took the English that you provided for that timecode of the Youtube video and the matching Russian line from the file you provided from the ulozto. (I did not need my blizzardkid downloads for this.) Serbian is also a Slavic language like Russian, so Google-transating Russian to Serbian should be pretty clean and closely matching the actual spoken dialog. Google Translate also will speak the words in a computerized voice if the text is not too long.

The girl simply spoke quickly so the words ran together and we heard what we wanted to!
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Re: [REL] Princ od papira (2008) [Serbia]

Post by ghost »   0 likes

OMG! :o Soooo much to read.

But that's for the upgrade and for the subs. I didn't came across this movie yet. Looks cute. :P
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Re: [REL] Princ od papira (2008) [Serbia]

Post by Night457 »   1 likes

ghost wrote: Fri Oct 28, 2022 3:56 pm OMG! :o Soooo much to read.
Skim? Skip?

Short version: get the 720p copy from blizzardkid, and wait for the completed English subtitles. :D
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Re: [REL] Princ od papira (2008) [Serbia]

Post by ghost »   1 likes

get the 720p copy from blizzardkid, and wait for the completed English subtitles.
That's what I'm gonna do. ;)
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Re: [REL] Princ od papira (2008) [Serbia]

Post by pillowbaker »   1 likes

Thank you for being patient with me. Although SE/google have adequately translated the Russian subs, I am only 20% of the way through the movie. If anyone doesn't want to wait any longer, I am posting what I've got so far. I will certainly continue to work on them tomorrow.


Edit: I am now around 40% of the way through the movie. The film is pretty fun, the main girl is great, and I definitely recommend waiting for the edited subs. There are changes to nearly every line planned. This little project has been enjoyable and challenging. Some lines I suspect to be puns or something, as the meaning is difficult to extract. These lines have taken quite a bit of pondering, and so far I've been able to come up with something. :mrgreen:

EDIT: I am 60% of the way through the movie. Things coming along well. Just a bit longer. ;)
EDIT: Now at 70%.

.
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Re: [REL] Princ od papira (2008) [Serbia]

Post by ghost »   0 likes

I am only 20% of the way through the movie.
I know, I know... It can take very long. First you think: oh, it's done in 2 hours.. and then you're only at 50 % after one day. :cry:

Thanks for your work, pillowbaker! I will wait...
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Re: [REL] Princ od papira (2008) [Serbia]

Post by David32441 »   1 likes

I feel your pain. It took me maybe 20 hours to translate/time each of the 2x 90m movies I subtitled: La Petite allumeuse, Inseperables. Both had about 1000 lines of dialogue. I wrote this guide on how I did my translations - https://www.first-loves.com/forums/view ... hp?t=13885
I found Aegisub to be fantastic for doing the translation timing.
Subtitle Workshop is very good for if you have a subtitle that doesn't fit to your video file. You can change the 1st / last subtitle timepoint and it recalculates the thousand subtitles inbetween them. Great if one is 23.97 and the other is timed to 25fps or vice versa.
Of course if one video is interrupted by adverts, or has a different cut then it gets very complicated to realign the video and subtitles! But never try and change the video/audio speed. Always try and change the subtitles.
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Re: [REL] Princ od papira (2008) [Serbia]

Post by pillowbaker »   17 likes

FINALLY, here, they're done! :D

Thanks, first of all, to gordana75 over at BK for the initial Russian translation and sub-work. I should give mention of the quality of the 720p version most will be using. It appears to be an HDTV rip, and certain segments have a slight stutter during camera panning shots, and it's a little fuzzy in some parts. For the most part, the image quality is quite satisfactory.

What a fun little movie this was to tinker with! I hope there's a little interest in watching it. I loved how this film did not shy away from incorporating dark and adult concepts, such as adultery, robbery, blackmail, and fear of being murdered with your whole family, as Julija tries to understand what's going on around her. The film moves at a pretty easy and quick pace, enough so, that I wish there's was more time for a few of the important support characters.

However, on the up side of this, the focus of the film is entirely on our main girl Julija (Yuzza), and she carries 92% of the scenes! Her spunky and spritely character is super enjoyable to watch. To top it off, she does look very close in age to her character's age, which is around 8 years old. And she performs great!

If anyone watches, let me know of any suggestions for the subs. As I went along, I often considered my favorite English subs/translations/dubs and localizations, and I constantly felt like I could give the English subs a bit more pizazz. However, deepL and google still did most of the work. Neither understanding Serbian or Russian did dampen my expectations a bit, but I nevertheless tried to give it a good, understandable flow, I combed through every line, and even gave it a once-over, watching the entirety after it was "completed". I even figured out how to make many of the wordier lines stay up longer.

I am reminded of a moment where Night points out an imdb plot synop might unintentionally be interpreted as more grisly than it really is. "When seven-year-old Julia's parents go out and leave her at home alone, she opens the door to a suspicious stranger. Six months later, the consequences of this..." When I saw this, I feared the worst, but no worries, nothing too monstrous happens, but something important does.

ghost wrote:I know, I know... It can take very long. First you think: oh, it's done in 2 hours.. and then you're only at 50 % after one day.
I would even consider that a tremendous pace of high regard, considering how long this one took me. And google/deepL still did most of the work!


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720p rip from blizzardkid, thanks to the folk there.

Like this post to see ed2k links  [75.4 Kb]
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Here details my adventures in nerdery translation world, some minor spoilers. Dull parts first, they get more interesting the further down you go.:
Spoiler:

I must say, it sure is a workout for the mind to figure out how to make the dialogue flow nicely with cohesion, not to mention ascertaining the meaning of more unclearly translated lines. But I absolutely loved the work, and discovered even more resources than my last sub project. tr-ex.me was particularly helpful. Catalogued here are some segments of difficult areas and moments of great fun.

..............................................

133
00:11:27,234 --> 00:11:32,977
Здесь случится кое-что намного хуже, если
не найду этот чертов британский паспорт!

134
00:11:33,687 --> 00:11:35,765
Чего только не прочитаешь в газетах.

135
00:11:36,094 --> 00:11:39,507
Погиб в аварии, был убит в кафе.

136
00:11:39,648 --> 00:11:41,609
Убита вся семья!

"What you DON'T read in the papers." ??? The way her father is rampaging on gave me the wrong impression of him. You discover later in the movie what's going on, but his words here I struggled to get straight. "Consider the country we live in," he later states.


..............................................


247
00:23:04,039 --> 00:23:06,047
Они спрашивают, как тебе.
Ты скажи.

248
00:23:07,726 --> 00:23:09,460
Вот, нравится.

249
00:23:10,374 --> 00:23:13,203
Не важно. Но делай вид, словно
что-то делаешь.


I sure had to bend this one around to have it play out. Especially since what he's teaching her at that point is used later in the movie. The confusion is "when they ask you how you feel, **yawn/indifferent** say I like it." I thought he was teaching her how to simply be indifferent about something she feels, so as to not draw attention to it, and that may be how the Russian is, but it seems to be like he's teaching her how to avoid drawing attention to anything she like/wants to keep around that her parents also don't like, but to also use this ability to get out of sticky situations. What he tells her after this part is a good line, to the effect of, "they are your parents, but they don't need to be told about everything they won't understand."





..............................................



I'm sure you've already seen some great English moments like this, but they still make me giggle. The following is edited in the final draft; here I am showing you what it looked like mostly unedited:

480
00:43:41,831 --> 00:43:43,620
What, is she your girlfriend?

481
00:43:44,229 --> 00:43:48,026
No. She's just my girlfriend.
- Oh, girlfriend.

482
00:43:51,087 --> 00:43:52,266
She's cute.

483
00:43:52,923 --> 00:43:55,837
Cute.
- And if so, why isn't she your girlfriend?

484
00:43:57,001 --> 00:43:58,603
Because she's my girlfriend.

485
00:43:59,923 --> 00:44:04,767
When I was a kid, I didn't have
girlfriends. Just girlfriends.


Running a search on the appropriate words reveals plenty of explanations, the most helpful was at hinative.com and verymuchrussian.com.


..............................................

Дядя не ахти какой шахматист.
У него могли взять коня.

Unedited:
Uncle wasn't much of a chess player.
He could have had a horse.

Apparently in at least a few languages, horse and the chess piece "knight" are the same or very similar words.
Also, deepl and google both struggle to determine is it's saying that he could have TAKEN a knight or has his knight taken from him.


..............................................


Line 497 (44:54)

The sign is of course written in Serbian, so I immediately transcribed it and translated it to compare with the Russian translation. More detail is included on the sign but is hard to squeeze into an appropriate timing. It did assist in clarifying meaning during the editing process. You'll notice that Serbian uses both the Cyrillic and Latin script.

da joj vratio nešto od papira i nešto od metala!

подводни фотограф, И планинарка, да бих јој вратио нешто од папира и нешто од метала!

да бих јој вратио нешто од папира и нешто од метала!

podvodni fotograf, I planinarka, da bih joj vratio nešto od papira i nešto od metala! da bih joj vratio nešto od papira i nešto od metala!


..............................................

awkward lines, stayed awkward no matter how much I tweaked
510 (45:36)

Orig. "Do you still think that you didn’t turn out to be a completely stupid child, since you gave him all this?"

Rewrote it in final draft, but not sure if it's any better.

..............................................


One of my favorite moments during editing.

463 (41:55)
"Female henpecked"
"woman's whippersnapper"
"woman's whipping boy"

Well, I get the idea of how she's teasing the boy, but henpecked doesn't seemed to have gotten wide use in English (to my knowledge). The closest I could think of in modern usage is the slang "he's whipped", which I haven't heard since like 2005, and it does sound rather lame.

I hope you like what I came up with, after so much deliberation on this throwaway line. See it in the movie. :P Let me know if you have any suggestions!

..............................................



How do you like how I handled this one, at 49:44 thru 49:55, lines 567 and 568:

- Меня на мякине не проведешь!
- Мякине?

"You can't fool me on the chaff. -- Chaff?"

For those needing a bit of explanation on English idioms;
https://www.merriam-webster.com/diction ... es%20about

You like what I did there? Bit of a stretch, but aren't they all? Once I thought of this one, it was hard not to use it! Go check it out. :D


..............................................


50:26 Julia is most definitely not wearing her seatbelt! Major translation note, right? You still with me?


..............................................


FUNNY LINE WARNING, best to see this one the first time during the film:
I love how well google/deepl managed to capture some of the dialogue Julia mixes up when trying to understand adult concepts.

Having an affair/walking with kittens. And google managed to make one of the movie's best lines on its own, "my mom coulda just waited til I was at least 9 years old."
HAHAHAH :D :D :D


..............................................


Line 694 thru 696

Orig Serbian, best I could do:
trazim slikapa Nikolu koji ume pa nacpta Krug bez sestara, pa me vrati nesto papira i nesto od metala, u petak u 10h kopo kapetnue na zemvnskvm Keju!

..............................................


Possibly my favorite moment during editing!

https://journeys.dartmouth.edu/folklore ... or-a-walk/

Lines 854-855
Russian nursery rhyme


It's obvious that the original Russian subtitler went with a common Russian nursery rhyme that "is well-known and uniform throughout Russia but has little to no cultural implications."

Had so much fun tinkering with nerdery rhyme ideas here!

was considering "if you're happy and you know -- clap your hands!"
"eeny meen miney moe"
or "1,2,3,4,5 -- once I caught a fish alive"
and "there was a farmer, had a dog -- and Bingo was his name-o"

On the subject of eeny meeny, I found what might be a russian continuation:
"my boss said to pick the very best one, but who the fuck is that?"

The Russian nursery rhyme is a good fit, as it has a happy ending, so I tried to pick something a little uplifting. Hope you like my choice!


.........................................


As I was working on this, I discovered the movie is supposedly based on a book. Supposedly because, on cursory look, the book and movie have close production/publication times, and the screenwriter for the film is also the author of the book.

Many things are probably answeralble only in the book:

what crawled up Pegi's ass later in the movie as thing became more resolved?
is ema pegi's guardian? Neighbor he hangs out with often? She is not his grandmother.
who really drew that powerpuff girl picture? ;P
some important characters don't get fleshed out quite enough, though it's great to see how much focus is given to Julia!
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